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 Post subject: DCM Minis KS
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:16 am 
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Hey folks,

Keep an eye out in February for some news on our next Miniatures KS. Whatever we have we will post here.

Happy holidays & Merry Christmas to ya'll and a Happy New Year!

Updated with live link!

#Behemoth is live! http://tinyurl.com/otrgrca

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 Post subject: Re: DCM Minis KS
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:22 am 
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I just received the first draft of our feature KS sculpt, it is looking really sweet. We're not sharing it juuuust yet, yes yes I know, I'm a horrible monster, but I do plan to share soon!

:cloud9:

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 Post subject: Re: DCM Minis KS
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:14 pm 
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Darn I have to wait. Actually this gives me time to save some $$ for the Kickstarter. :cheer:


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 Post subject: Re: DCM Minis KS
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:24 pm 
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We have some details to share about our upcoming campaign, and we think it's high time we did so. :)

In our previous campaign :injured: we tried to make an offering that was substantial, we didn't want to come out with 1 PPM (pre-painted plastic mini) and build from that, so we brought it up to a reasonable number that we felt people could buy as a batch.

We then decided "why not theme it"? So we came out with the "Tidal Wave" title and centered the figures around missing minis that our surveys suggested would be great sellers in the PPM community.

It was true enough. Our community flocked to our KS campaign (thank you all) and then the pledges eventually stopped growing. Our goal was really high, and we weren't getting a lot of interest outside of our circle.

Many of the complaints seemed to point towards the campaign being very complex, so we fixed it up and launched again - with an even lower goal thanks to our new manufacturers, but ended up with the same results.

After the campaigns failed we decided to go back to the drawing board and examine what made other KS campaign successful. Some major points that stood out:

  • We were relatively unknown
  • We had a very high goal
  • We were using concept art instead of sculpts

RELATIVELY UNKNOWN
There are lots of KS out there being run by companies that are unknown, that's actually KS's purpose, so that wasn't the problem, it was A problem, but not THE problem. This meant we were relying on our circle of friends to back us though, which meant we were limited to a certain kind of cap.

outcome :: Ok, that gave us something to work with. We know that even if only our community of followers pledges, we want them to walk away with something AWESOME, so we went to the drawing board. We looked at the $ amounts we were able to raise, and the number of people we were able to bring on board, and decided to work towards a goal that could accommodate both! Part one solved.

VERY HIGH GOAL
Our goal was pretty insane, but unfortunately it was what was needed in order to succeed with the plans we had in place. After looking at many other amazing campaigns we figured it was possible. Namely, we required lots of sculpts, which meant lots of mould cavities, which meant the price was very high, and the cost of PPMs (our love) was what was killing us dead in our tracks.

outcome ::So, we devised a work-around. Our campaign will feature individual minis, and in particular one very impressive mini to launch with. We will have our goal be for the unpainted version with stretch goals being for additional sculpts, while in between each goal we will have checkpoints to make them pre-painted. This way, if we at least reach our goal, we will at least have an unpainted sculpt to present to our customers!

CONCEPT ART VS SCULPTS
Well, let's face it, we're selling minis - not artwork. However, artwork costs and sculpts cost even more, and we're not big enough to soak up costs like these easily. Having the artwork professionally done we figured would be presentable, then we could update with greens and sculpts and so on, all it would take was a little imagination on the parts of the backers - afterall, we'd done some terrible concept art and come away with sweet sculpts (Town Folk) - all we'd need is a bit of faith... *ugh* we believe that that assessment was dead wrong. New Backers don't know us, why would they have faith in us? :alone:

outcome ::So, we've gone forward, taking on the expenses ourselves (which is why the long delay) to get some sculpts made for the campaign. This way we can have proper representations of what we are pitching. And, let me say, so far we are very happy with the results. :love:

WHAT WE ARE OFFERING @ LAUNCH
1. One over-sized unpainted mini.
2. Some KS exclusives:
  • KS Collector T-shirt.
  • A Signed Collector Card for Labyrinth & Authenticity (individually numbered).
  • Blackbyrne Adventure set in the world of Dungeon Crawler!
3. Add-ons include:
  • Our previously released DC Minis.
  • Custom Coins.
  • Our KS Campaign T-shirt.
  • Our ECG Card Game and it's expansions.
4. The secret of our strange bases will be revealed!
5. Shipping will be included in the pledges for USA, +$15 for international.
6. Master Paints by Ben Riegler will be available!
7. A Starting goal of $10,000

WHAT ARE WE NOT GOING TO DO?
We are not going to do any themes with this campaign, like water or pirates. That doesn't mean we won't have aquatic figures, it just means they will be mixed throughout the entire campaign (not bunched together).

WHERE IS THE WATER ELEMENTAL LORD?
He's in there. Sadly, he costs a lot to make, but he's not grand enough (that will probably make more sense later on) to launch with. We have him slotted as our #20 #7 figure in this campaign. We hope we can make it to him, but we know it's a long trek and we'll need support outside of our community to do it (or maybe it can be done in a followup campaign). Special transparent plastic has to be used to make this figure and we have to make sure that we have enough funds to get there and have enough figures to make the mould worth making! :blink:

CAMPAIGN MANAGER
We are working on a campaign manager "now", it won't be available at launch because our launch is very simple, but it will be available shortly after. The manager will allow potential backers to calculated what they want to back with AND allow backers to save and edit their "cart" as they like. :dance:

BLACKBYRNE!
Let me back track a little bit there to "Blackbyrne Adventure set in the world of Dungeon Crawler" - what exactly does this mean?

If the campaign succeeds in reaching it's first goal, we are hiring Blackbyrne Publishing to design a Module set in the Dungeon Crawler world of Ara! It will contain campaign setting rules, pre-generated characters, maps, battle mats AND a level 1-4 adventure which can be played with the campaign setting rules or as a normal PATHFINDER module. :sweet:

The campaign will include every sculpt completed in this campaign as part of the adventure with a monster entry (granted it won't ONLY be our sculpts).

Special thanks will be entered in to the module for folks that support the KS as well!

This PDF will be included with particular pledge levels only, otherwise we encourage you to support them and buy from them directly once the KS campaign has ended!

That's all for now folks, will be back next week with something special!

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 Post subject: Re: DCM Minis KS
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:24 pm 
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If you are looking for the painted version of our first goal, it will be at the $15k checkpoint.

Our first stretch goal will be at $18k 19k.

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 Post subject: Re: DCM Minis KS
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:33 am 
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dungeoncrawler wrote:
Our campaign will feature individual minis, and in particular one very impressive mini to launch with. We will have our goal be for the unpainted version with stretch goals being for additional sculpts, while in between each goal we will have checkpoints to make them pre-painted. This way, if we at least reach our goal, we will at least have an unpainted sculpt to present to our customers!


I've been in discussion with a dozen or so people who've launched Kickstarters over the last four months and I've come to the conclusion that hidden Stretch Goals are killing a lot of Kickstarters. There's no doubt that many people are putting in large Pledges in order to see the Stretch Goals revealed, and then either reducing or removing their Pledge in the last couple of days if they are not happy with the likely total Reward. So many Kickstarters are going backwards on the last day when the last day should be one of the best Pledge days.

For our Blade Kickstarter I'm thinking of either not having Stretch Goals at all or revealing all of the Stretch Goals from the outset.

dungeoncrawler wrote:
CONCEPT ART VS SCULPTS
Well, let's face it, we're selling minis - not artwork. However, artwork costs and sculpts cost even more, and we're not big enough to soak up costs like these easily. Having the artwork professionally done we figured would be presentable, then we could update with greens and sculpts and so on, all it would take was a little imagination on the parts of the backers - afterall, we'd done some terrible concept art and come away with sweet sculpts (Town Folk) - all we'd need is a bit of faith... *ugh* we believe that that assessment was dead wrong. New Backers don't know us, why would they have faith in us? :alone:


Reaper (Huge), Impact! Miniatures (Middle Sized), and Effigy Miniatures (Home Studio) have all had Kickstarters recently, all got up, and all used concept art and no sculpts. I don't expect to see sculpts -- because if the sculpts have already been done then what is the Kickstarter funding? Mould making? Or is it really a shopfront, selling minis that are going to be made whether the Kickstarter is successful or not?

Anyway, I like the analysis you've put in to your KSes and I agree with your other points. I'm sure that the new KS will get up without incident.

Regards,

Ian P.


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 Post subject: Re: DCM Minis KS
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:03 am 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
I've been in discussion with a dozen or so people who've launched Kickstarters over the last four months and I've come to the conclusion that hidden Stretch Goals are killing a lot of Kickstarters.

That is a concern. There are even backers that encourage this behaviour because they want the reveals. I think I'm okay with that, I'll explain. If we're reaching Stretch goals because of over inflating pledges, and if they drop, as long as they don't drop several Stretch goals or worse back below the initial goal, I'll be fine with that. I'm going in to this with the notion that people will love what they are getting and it is worth what they're pledging at the base level, no Stretches required. If curiosity makes us show off some goodies, that's cool, I'm a curious guy myself and love reveals. :)

We do plan to show off some of the Goals after launch at a particular pace, as we've already mentioned some of the intended goals (although not the minis).

Basically, my feeling (and this could be totally wrong), if the core campaign isn't worth pledging on people won't jump on board. I firmly believe, Stretch goals should be treated as such, show what else you have planned to a degree that doesn't overwhelm and confuse, because between different PPM backers - they are starving for different things! It's extremely difficult to determine if a Stretch goal will be a turn-off or a turn-on. I've been watching a plethora of threads and comments about other KS campaigns and there are some very wild comments about what flies and what doesn't fly for folks.

For instance; there is a thread about a particular KS that is featuring Goblins right now, there are people waiting to see if those goals are surpassed before pledging because they want the humans beyond that goal. The Goblins look fantastic, but they don't want/need them. Apparently that same campaigner already tried mixing up the races and didn't do so hot (this is second hand, so I can't confirm info on the original campaign).

Ian.Plumb wrote:
Reaper (Huge), Impact! Miniatures (Middle Sized), and Effigy Miniatures (Home Studio) have all had Kickstarters recently, all got up, and all used concept art and no sculpts.

I think those campaigns had different conditions going for them. Reaper only used a few pieces of art, most sculpts were of existing metals and they have both a very big following and a long history of being in the business. Impact! used nostalgia to grab their clientele, Chibi representations of pre-existing properties - I almost bought in to their cute little chubby faced campaign (I decided to back out for personal reasons). Effigy's goal (sorry had to look this one up) was $5,000 which we certain attained and more with our previous campaigns, and I believe concept art works well for a small campaign like that, but we were going for a really BIG goal, and I think it was that combination - that hurt us. Also, I believe that 3d models of figures is the equivalent of getting something sculpted, it has THAT tactile feel (for lack of a better word).

Ian.Plumb wrote:
I don't expect to see sculpts -- because if the sculpts have already been done then what is the Kickstarter funding? Mould making? Or is it really a shopfront, selling minis that are going to be made whether the Kickstarter is successful or not?

We really had to dig deep to get the sculpts and art made, it was no small task for us. Handling the moulds, production costs and shipping are beyond our meager means without a very long wait. Our overall goal is to move in to the market faster, we're ready to go, we just need to get our legs. So, for us at least, this is not just a pre-sell. If we can get proper circulation established and a stable customer base (our second goal), our long term goal is to bring it to our home turf.

Ian.Plumb wrote:
Anyway, I like the analysis you've put in to your KSes and I agree with your other points. I'm sure that the new KS will get up without incident.

Thank you, a good discussion as always. :tiphat:

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 Post subject: Re: DCM Minis KS
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:05 pm 
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Ian.Plumb wrote:
I've been in discussion with a dozen or so people who've launched Kickstarters over the last four months and I've come to the conclusion that hidden Stretch Goals are killing a lot of Kickstarters.


dungeoncrawler wrote:
That is a concern. There are even backers that encourage this behaviour because they want the reveals. I think I'm okay with that, I'll explain. If we're reaching Stretch goals because of over inflating pledges, and if they drop, as long as they don't drop several Stretch goals or worse back below the initial goal, I'll be fine with that.


What I dislike about the faux pledges is the potential for a domino effect. Most Pledgers normally wouldn't adjust their Pledge downwards but will adjust upwards if a Stretch is made that requires additional funding. But now everyone is used to the idea that Stretch Goals and even Goals disappear in the last 48 hours. So people who Pledged $40 + $20 for Stretch 3 and + $15 for Stretch 4 now realise that they have to check their Pledge on that last day in case those Stretches have disappeared -- and if they have, they will adjust their Pledge downwards.

Faux Pledges can end up requiring everyone to adjust, even those who genuinely Pledged. It's a pain in the ....

Ian.Plumb wrote:
I don't expect to see sculpts -- because if the sculpts have already been done then what is the Kickstarter funding? Mould making? Or is it really a shopfront, selling minis that are going to be made whether the Kickstarter is successful or not?


dungeoncrawler wrote:
We really had to dig deep to get the sculpts and art made, it was no small task for us. Handling the moulds, production costs and shipping are beyond our meager means without a very long wait. Our overall goal is to move in to the market faster, we're ready to go, we just need to get our legs. So, for us at least, this is not just a pre-sell. If we can get proper circulation established and a stable customer base (our second goal), our long term goal is to bring it to our home turf.


Sure -- but Kickstarter is for funding creative projects. If the creativity has already been done -- the sculpts are made -- then the KS is there to fund a manufacturing process. I can understand that you can't bring the minis to market without funding, as the manufacturing process is expensive. As a Pledger though the manufacturing process isn't very exciting and isn't creative. I personally like the idea that my Pledge helps bring into existence something that wouldn't otherwise exist.

Anyway, February is at hand and it is time to finalise those KS details...

Regards,

Ian P.


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 Post subject: Re: DCM Minis KS
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:32 pm 
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That does sound terrible, I'll be sure to keep the reveals well ahead of the current total then.

I suppose that might not be exciting, to me - it's very exciting, because the sculpt it made and there's a chance I'll get in PPM at a reasonable price! And I don't mean this from the publisher's point of view, I mean it from a customer's point of view. Because, unless I have it in hand, it's still just a concept. Even if it has a nebulous sculpt somewhere in the world, I like to have the finished thing! :cloud9:

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 Post subject: Re: DCM Minis KS
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:51 pm 
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First, let me say I am really looking forward to another opportunity to try and support DCM minis.

I realize this is just me and as such is anecdotal. I will not back a Kickstarter if I do nto believe what I am paying for is fine as the base offer level. If there are additional rewards those are all frosting on the cake for me. I dislike the idea of "backing" and then pulling out because rewards just didn't add up.

I am also sad the Reaper Bones ever happened in some ways. I think it set a false sense of what a kickstarter should be and what a backer should expect from a kickstarter. Now if people do not see dozens of free things being added they act like they have somehow missed out.

I get that I am not buying a mini retail in a kickstarter. I expect some of my money is being used for start up etc. That is the whole point of kickstarter.

Lastly, as for the art vs sculpt question: Neither make or break my choices. I have seen stuff in sculpt that was good but did not get me to back, and some that did. Same goes for concept art. Some earned my money and some did not. The real key for me is: Do I trust that what will come out of the kickstarter will meet my expectations. In the case of DCM I own some of their minis (Well at least one of each one available right now) and as such I have trust they will do a good job in the end. Scetches were enough to get my money last time.

Again, I realize I am just one voice and that others may disagree. But I wanted to sound off anyway. :cool:


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